Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

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Shada Dukal
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Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Shada Dukal » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:26 pm

Now, I have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised and relieved when the mad Medusa Gorgon lost. I am gloating gleefully while reading the press coverage. Trump might be quite questionable in terms of moral and social sensitivity but I hope he will lead less interventionalist foreign policy and will refrain from NATO missions. I also hope that he will lift the sanctions against Russia and open a dialogue with Putin because these sanctions put Eastern Europe at a disadvantage, we buy gas from Russia, and we need access to their market. I also hope that Trump will find a way to strike some agreement with China and lessen the tensions in this part of the world.

I truly don’t care what he does at a domestic level, he wants to build a wall at the Mexican border? No problem at all. He wants to slap 35% tariff on Ford cars produced in Mexico. I couldn't care less. He wants to concentrate on rebuilding the infrastructure, this is an entirely domestic issue. As long as he does not send troops to democratize and liberate some powder keg, everything is fine with me.

As an additional perk, all the campus rabble justifying its existence by stirring storms in a teacup and whining over minorities, environment, animal rights and gender issues will be silenced, the political correctness will be curbed, people might say what they really think without being afraid that some mad activist will fly at their throats. So this is a kind of poetic justice – the average white Joe who drives an old Dodge, and will never send his kids to college got sick and tired of being humiliated, neglected and called misogynist, white supremacist, racist, sexist, abuser, patriarchal tyrant and struck back. Too many ordinary people were screwed up by globalization, multinationals and cheap activism funded by particular lobbies. As I have always said people don’t eat rights and freedom, they need jobs and security.

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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Gul Khold » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:15 pm

Much like you, as long as nobody I know or care gets fucked nor he interferes in another third-world country (SPECIALLY the more troublesome ones in Middle East or down here in South America) nor provoke any nation that has nuclear capacity, I do not care about anything he does.

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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Shada Dukal » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:02 am

Actually, I truly don’t want to be in the shoes of the people choosing between Trump and Clinton. Both suck in a big way. Despite the protests and riots taking place after the elections, I think the voters unconsciously opted for the lesser evil. What is more, I don’t believe a word of his pompous declarations, he definitely can draw attention and knows that such a thing as bad publicity does not exist. He took part in reality shows and held the rights for beauty contests so he approached the elections as a reality show.

My biggest hope is that Trump will deal a blow to globalization initiatives such as TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership and he might revoke NAFTA too unless its terms and conditions are not renegotiated. This is good for my country because this type of policy puts on ice the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, or TTIP which would be devastating for a small open economy like ours. We are ruined enough by years of unencumbered European import and all our water and energy facilities are controlled by foreign multinationals.

http://www.politico.eu/article/trump-wi ... irst-days/

What about the protests and the riots? Are they genuine? Who pays for them?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016 ... /93665092/

There are rumors that they are funded by the Democrats, the Soros conspiracy was already debunked.

Basically, I don’t think that the protests will lead to a civil war or enhanced police presence and a curfew. I guess they will die out gradually.

Why did Trump win, what is your analysis? Why did people prefer his buffoonery to Clinton’s hypocrisy? He rubbed the wrong way a lot of minorities and feminists, but 52% of white women and 26 % of Latinas voted for him. He threatened to deport the illegal Mexicans but 33% of Latino men did not mind at all.

Currently CNN expects that Trump is about to win the popular vote too, so the protestors might lose their main argument.
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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Gul Khold » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:31 am

Indeed, it was a choice of picking the lesser evil. Also, there is the fact Trump sold himself as someone who will break with this enforced political correctness that has been all but censoring what people even think. Nobody likes to have college kids nagging you all the time with some hippie philosophy about how "all men are rapists", for example. He sold himself as someone who would end that kind of stuff and it did appeal to the general public.

Indeed, Trump is a showman. He sold a character and the voters bought him. He is also a businessman, meaning that behind the cameras, he will likely to operate in a more logical way. I think many minorities still voted for him precisely because they figured that out. That and figured that the hypocritical witch that is Hillary would likely end up triggering yet another war with her belicose rethoric.

I do have similar hopes about him walking out on similar globalization proposals down here. It would give us a lot of room to breath and, maybe, prevent what is left of our own corporations from being bought or sold to foreign multinationals. Every single one of those that was privatized or sold to foreigners had their services get worse every year and give very few economic return to the country.

It is not a surprise, really. It also explain why those protesters weren't so eager to, well, protest. Let me explain: As soon as the police said they'd remove them by force in Portland, they slowly walked out without a hitch. Me and my friend Dean were watching this and he agreed with my point: If someone truly wants to protest, they will stay until removed by force. We saw it happening many times before. It was like those people were paid to "riot". It was even more intriguing the number of white protesters (which is odd; weren't the minorities supposed to be the most upset people?).

I think that things might get a bit ugly if we have fanatical liberals at the day Trump takes office next year. But the rest should fizzle out, like you said.

Well, like I mentioned before, it is not only what you said about him being the lesser evil, but basic logic and the desire to live in a place where a bunch of brats won't try to ruin your life using the internet (believe me, that happened) simply because you refered to a two meters tall man in makeup and a wig as a "he" or for simply being polite to an unknown woman and be taxated as having second intentions or outright "would-be rapist".

Hoo boy, that's gonna really trigger the Democrats XD

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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Shada Dukal » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:00 pm

Yes, you have captured the logical reasoning as well as the economic and pragmatic reasons that brought Trump to power.

The mainstream media claims that there are thousands of protesters but fails to mention how many thousand exactly and ignores the smaller and peaceful protests where nothing happens. In each town or city where protests were reported, the number of protesters ranged from 50 to 3,000 (L.A.) depending on the size of the population center. Anti-establishment forums and blogs unaffiliated with the Democrats keep finding evidence about organized movement of paid protesters who serve as agent provocateurs, stir violence, and tease the police forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-1 ... aught-tape

As far as the Inauguration Day is concerned, the protesters are projected to be between 7,000 and 30,000 people depending on how many facebook keyboard warriors really turn out for the rally. For example, the organizers of the NY protest on 12th November estimated the turnout at 2,000 people but the media exaggerated it to 10, 000 by assuming that the people who supported the initiative on facebook also joined it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11 ... alert.html

Here is the latest nail in the coffin of Hilary’s credibility.

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hil ... -strategy/

According to this article, Wikileaks has found a memo explaining their campaign strategy against particular candidates. The democrats planned to build up their rhetoric and public disputes against an extremely unpleasant and provocative Republican candidate convincing the swing vote that this was the face of the Republican party and thus making them vote for the Democrat candidate. They expected to use Trump as a bogeyman driving the moderate, undecided, and independent voters to the ballot boxes.

However, their strategy backfired badly not only because of the Midwest but because neither the Republicans nor the Democrats realized how much the ordinary skeptic citizen was fed up with the polished, well-balanced and squeamishly polite discourse imposed by the media and the career politicians.

The hesitant voters listened to Trump not because they liked what he said or agreed with him but because they were surprised that a clown that no one took seriously could have the nerve to call a spade a spade, dismiss the angry screams with a shrug, and keep talking. His behavior reminded them of how much personal liberty they have sacrificed while keeping their thoughts, disagreements, and inconveniences to themselves. How much they have not said because they might be called out and they might lose their good standing. And here is someone who is successful and rich, but still is not afraid of losing face and does not feel like hiding his real views no matter how objectionable they might be.

I think that some of the people voting for Trump really wanted to mock the traditional political culture that generates dynasties of Bushes and Clintons turning the presidency into a hereditary business. So, if this is a business, let’s have a businessman at least. If Hilary’s dishonesty and publicly discussed blunders and machinations are not a problem why should Trump’s boorishness count? If character really mattered, neither of them should have been allowed to run for President. They voted for Trump because this was their way to pull a prank on the system and to show its total absurdity. It was a protest vote – a punishment and revenge. The discontented citizens refused to root for the designated favorite and decided to piss off the establishment.

I guess if the democrats had focused on economic inequality and infrastructure rather than on gender, race, and a hawkish foreign policy, they could have won. But inciting different groups of people against each other seems to be easier than finding them jobs, pointing at differences is easier than offering a solution based on commonalities and tangible economic benefits.

Ironically, CNN reversed their prognosis claiming a “design flaw” so Hilary won the popular vote. How strange, I have really expected that CNN have a lot of experience in covering ballot counts both domestically and internationally.

Still, I think that it will be a rough term, with plenty of opposition coming from all sides. Politics has its rules and tricks so the old political status quo is not going to step aside and give a troublesome newcomer a bed of roses. I suppose the Republicans are not jumping for joy either because Trump is too unpredictable, he is not a professional politician so he is likely to act on his business hunches and personal experience. In any case, this is getting better and better, who needs a reality show?
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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Gul Khold » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:12 pm

That pretty much sums it all up. It was about how Lula had came to power here: Amongst all those neo-liberal and conservative presidents boorish talking about economy and rather overcomplicated wording on their promises, came Lula; a man who had nothing and became succesful, who spoke like normal people did, who had normal people's flaws (Lula had shown episodes of prejudice against certain cliques - though he apologized - and he is well-known for liking to drink, which is a flaw the "perfect" traditional politicians lack, he also did mock more than once those facebook Social Justice Warriors - mainly the feminists - calling them "women of hard cunt" XD). All in all, it made the people feel more close to him.

As result, when the country's economy was going downhill in 2000, the people elected him as a protest and it turned out well. So well that even with all the shit our media throws at him and the popular militaristic ultra-conservative christian candidate Jair Bolsonaro (I hate that guy) announcing he will compete in 2018, polls show that if Lula competes, he might win with 72% of the votes! It is no so different than the reasons that led people to vote for Trump (Trump, by the way, did speak well of Lula's government more than once - likely because he could reconcile his massive social projects while attracting investors and moving to aid national companies).

By the way, here is a short interview Trump has granted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDM5EWieJzg

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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Shada Dukal » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:44 pm

That is true, Lula was internationally recognized as extremely successful and popular President who managed to strike the right balance between the interests of all social strata. He improved the economic reality for the poorest citizens without alienating and antagonizing the business circles, the banking sector, and the middle-class layer.

Basically, people hate Trump out of habit, it is progressive to hate the Republican agenda especially among minorities and college graduates and Trump gave all sides concerned (the Republicans including) plenty of material to bicker over. Even Bernie Sanders could not hide his disgust with the protesters and said that despite all controversies and inappropriate remarks, Trump was legally elected President so people should concentrate on more immediate and practical concerns. In fact, Sanders and Trump have quite similar economic platforms, they are anti-globalists, want to strengthen the low middle class and consider investments in domestic infrastructure a priority.

I watched the video and frankly, I can’t find anything that justifies the paranoia surrounding Trump. I wish he were less muddy on certain issues but I guess he is not aware of the details and expects the expert think-tanks to come up with figures and a step-by-step course of action.

He wants to deport only 2-3 million of the illegal immigrants, those with criminal record. Considering that entering a foreign country without a visa or staying in the said country after the visa expires constitutes a delinquency as well as working without a labor contract, I don’t think that such a measure is cruel or far-fetched. There are about 11 million illegal immigrants in the USA currently. A fence or a wall – a better border control is a must.

A dialogue with China, this is good news. Much better than sulking ominously and throwing ultimatums and insults at each other.

The Supreme Court has legalized gay marriage nationwide so this issue is settled.

The abortion rights have been upheld for 40 years, the issue has been brought to the Supreme Court several times but the original precedent (Roe vs. Wade) has never been overruled. Even before Trump, some states were known to have more pro-abortion regulations and others required more red tape, consents, or refused to subsidize it thus making it more expensive. Even if this precedent is to be overruled (the Supreme Court never overrules its own previous decisions, it undermines the respect for the institution), the states will be free to pursue their own policy on the matter but can’t stop women from going to another state. He needs three judges to do that and I suppose he will leave the matter pending at the discretion of the states. So the present status quo won’t be changed. The question is who pays for the abortions, and how affordable they are. Should the taxpayer pay for each irresponsible couple that economized on condoms and pills?

I don’t know what his plans on ISIS are and I am afraid he does not know either. He plays it by ear, let’s hope his generals are really great and they get some international support outside the UN Security Council as well. If it looks like another solely American crusade, its validity will be questioned. And it will be more expensive for the American taxpayer.

As to the health care, it is expected that the current insurance premiums will be replaced by tax deductions but basically he will keep some elements of the current system. It is not going to be more expensive than it is now and it is related to his policy for lowering and simplifying the tax system.
I find the Tweeter part of the drama really amusing. People expect that politicians should be free from personal biases and prejudices but they are only humans and they are not. In this sense, drawing a line between private tweets reflecting personal views and official government press releases and court or administrative procedures seems to be necessary. What public figures say and what institutions do are different things. Hilary Clinton has changed her views on gay marriages and civil unions several times over the years depending on which view fuels her agenda and suits her sponsors but the important thing is that the Supreme Court has declared them legal.

The best part is that he is going to work for one dollar only so at least no one can say that he is overpaid. And you can’t expect much for one dollar.
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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Gul Khold » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:06 pm

Indeed. I think I mentioned before that even with the stupid neo-conservative wave in my country, polls show Lula would still win an election. He was simply too popular amongst the poor and the low-middle classes. Even I would vote for him (and I actually deslike the guy - I met him once, believe it or not), because I do recognize my life improved a lot during his rule.

I think it could even work out if he invited Sanders to his office because of their similar views and would be a good PR stunt. I don't see them butting heads that much, despite being opposite parties and it would be something pragmatic of Sanders, in such scenario, to accept.

I suppose that's the case. He cannot really give his opinion on that many issues without knowing in depth the works behind them. I find stupid when people ask about the abortions issue, considering that almost any nation in the world currently has way bigger issues to deal with than that.

Rigid border control is never a bad thing. Usually, the only "open border" countries through history were not exactly good (usually, they were under-developed hellholes where all kinds of shady people got in for a safe haven). They simply cannot afford letting more people in and it is a similar issue we have in my country. Had it been other times, when there were less people in the world and much more pressing issues (like, say, WWII), it would be understandable. But with the refugees from Middle East, it is easier to solve the issue there and eliminate the reason why they leave, while Latin American illegal immigrants, most of the time, annoy me for trying to enter a country illegally and then cry when they get denied. Yes, I am latino, but I also obey the law.

I think better dialogue with China could go a long way to solve their economic issues. That and could open mutual trade opportunities. I am never opposed to diplomacy and opening more opportunities for business and both demand to have, at least, a professional relationship when speaking of other countries.

I believe if he cooperates with Russia in the whole ISIS debacle and keeps his promise (well, was more of a musing) about supporting Assad's government staying in power, the whole issue would be solve way more quickier. It is well-known the "moderate rebels" actually support ISIS, so supporting Assad and working with Russia would cut the supply flow from the US and the terrorists would be practically crushed by the local governments and both the US and Russia. It also would, again, be a great PR stunt for him to be "the creator of the coalition which eliminated the Islamic State".

His idea for the healthcare issue seems sound, considering the situation the country is. I still wonder why people saw such issues with Twitter, since almost every single famous (and not famous) politician has said or done things normal people do. There is no such a thing as a perfect politician because, like you said, they're humans and we all have flaws and virtues. It is just nitpicking that the opposition likes to do, while doing what I call "ostritch maneuver" (bury your head on the ground, raise your ass up) once the flaws about their own "heroes" get named.

It also makes sense; the guy is a millionaire. Why would he want the President's salary anyway?

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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Shada Dukal » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:35 pm

Your attitude towards Lula proves the point very well – you don’t need to like someone personally in order to vote for him/her. In fact, only the die-hard core electorate votes for a party no matter who represents this party out of sheer loyalty to the ideas that this party stands for. The moderate, the undecided, and the independent voters opt for the candidate that addresses an issue important for them in a way that suits them.

For example, if a person is negatively affected by Obamacare (Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act), he/she will support Trump for changing it and removing the obligation to buy a health insurance or pay a penalty. If a voter benefited from this act and received assistance, then he/she will favor someone who is likely to maintain it. For example, Trump’s proposal to deduct health insurance premium costs on their tax returns is very popular. Right now, this is impossible so a lot of people consider paying a penalty or buying a compulsory service that does not qualify as tax alleviation unfair.

This applies to all key points in the candidates' programs – individual rights, domestic issues, economic issues, and defense issues. However, it is important to stress that a person might be liberal on certain issues and conservative on others.

I don’t think it is possible to have a socialist (he was an independent, not a Democrat) and a Republican on the same side but I find it symbolic that two people with strikingly different political agendas can pinpoint infrastructure, anti-globalism and raising the life standard of the middle class as key problems. Still, Sanders was too liberal even for the potential democrat supporters, and that is why he lost the primaries. At the same time, Hilary was too much for Bernie’s fans and some of them stayed at home instead of going out and waiting in line to vote.

http://presidential-candidates.insidego ... nald-Trump

They have close results in terms of foreign entanglements, free trade, and gay rights but seem to hold very different views on other issues.
Here is an interview with Sanders.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... infrastru/

Speaking of border control and refugees, Canada decided to take 25,000 Syrian refugees but implemented a very strict selection program involving security checks, fingerprinting and iris scans. They also turned away unaccompanied male refugees due to the events in Cologne, Germany. What is more they did not take people from the refugee camps but people who have a verifiable background and live legally in countries like Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. I guess they figured out that scrutiny is the only way to prevent aggressive primitives and terrorists from entering their country. This is the reasonable approach – these people enter your country on your terms, you are the host, you set the rules.

What is more, the people who flooded Germany are not refugees but economic migrants from the entire Middle East and North Africa taking advantage of the ineffective border control and Syria crisis. They don’t want to work, they don’t have any valuable skills, they don’t speak any European languages and are unwilling to learn them, they simply want to receive net social payments. No one needs such a scum. Immigrants are good only if they contribute to the host country not when they cause troubles and rig the local labor market. Germany made a big mistake so whoever thinks that illegal immigration is not a problem should look at the situation in Germany. Their far-right is on the rise screeching about the fall of the Western civilization, ordinary citizens are shocked and angry and their institutions are toothless because they don’t have the legislation that authorizes harsher measures.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... itizenship

Well, there are many bones of contention between China and the USA so there will be much to gnaw at during the negotiations. Basically, both countries will lose if the trade war between them continues. China was sour because the TPP proposed by Obama excluded it and in fact, Obama imposed 35% tariff on Chinese tires. What is more, China is a major supplier of aluminum and steel for the US business, including the aircraft industry. China is the biggest foreign owner of the US dept so Trump might churn out some agreement, not a magical solution, not a perfect way out but something tolerable for both sides. Since TPP is no longer an option, vis-à-vis negotiations with big local players will be the only way.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /93787870/

Yes, Assad hopes that Trump will take his side and together with Putin they will finish off ISIS. Still, the general public in the US was led to believe that Assad’s rule and his systemic oppression of certain communities led to the emergence of ISIS, this perspective benefited Obama administration and allowed them to claim a stake and justify their support for the moderate terrorists. Putin, Trump and the UN Security Council will insist on elections for a new government and Assad might lose them or he might not even run in them. Not even Trump can ignore the anti-Assad attitude dominating the Western media without jeopardizing the credibility and continuity of the American foreign policy. In any case, Assad will be replaced, not because he is a bad leader, (better than many others, he is educated and secular, in fact, 80% of the population supports him), but because his public image is beyond repair. What is more, the emphasis should be put on keeping Syria within its present borders, stopping any secession or partition projects fueled by Turkey and local Muslim leaders, and preserving the administration structure of the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... um-snowden

The Tweeter part is important because social media are dominated by SJW (Social Justice Warriors) so I guess he pissed them off deliberately, as a way of snapping people out of their comfort zone. People start thinking only when they are stressed and provoked. In his interviews, he was much more informal and partial than in his official speeches during the campaign. I find that really innovative for the US social-political discourse – a political leader who distinguishes between his public persona (his capacity of presenting a particular political party) and his personal views that might be quite different from the standard political vernacular. I don’t think that attacking someone because you don’t like his tweets or you have overheard a private male-to-male conversation peppered with spicy jokes and empty boasts makes any sense. One can tell hundreds of jokes or anecdotes about grabbing a pussy, sucking a sausage, stupid blond women, repressed hubbies, mother-in-laws, whores and their customers, cheating spouses, gays, machos or minorities in their private conversations but if they have to deliver a public address in their administrative capacity, they will stick to the administrative officialese.

Needless to say, I hate SJWs in the guts so whoever manages to piss off that rabble will earn my profound admiration.

Well, more money is always welcome, no matter whether you are a multimillionaire or a beggar. Still, it is a good PR move. What he does with his presidential salary is the last thing that bothers me. I am interested in how much of his bold intentions the establishment will let him implement. The presidential institution is well integrated into the check-of-powers system so I expect him to concede and soften on many of his initial proposals.
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Re: Gul Dukat Won the American Elections!

Postby Gul Khold » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:02 am

And with all of that in mind, all we can do not is wait and see.


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