Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Sit on My Lap and Tell my How Much you Hate Cardassians
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:58 pm

Yes, I am familiar with this book, not one of my favorites, I am afraid. I like the details but still it is inconsistent with the show. In the show, Dukat did not recognize Kira but according to this book, he had been obsessed with Kira since she joined the Resistance.

The average Cardassian soldier was simply loyal to his people, wanted to survive and to come home in one piece. I don’t think that the Cardassians considered Bajorans a threat, more of stubborn primitives.

Personally, I don’t believe in historical guilt because history is written by the victors. Instilling a sense of guilt in a nation for generations on end is pointless, what people remember is that they lost and were subject to forces and developments beyond them. What is done is done and it was done in wartime when everyone did such things, ordinary people, soldiers and commanders could not change it.

Still, the question about the Bajoran terrorism is a valid one so I suggest we have a thread on it. I would also like to ask how many Cardassian soldiers and civilians died on Bajor. The Bajorans and the Feds never stopped screeching about their casualties whereas the Cardassians were to proud to discuss their losses.
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Gazomg
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Gazomg » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:58 pm

on the topic of nazis, I did a few manips of trek stars as nazis, and got a load of grief when I posted them on a trek manip site.

I was told it was bad taste etc, some of them were scantily dressed etc but that was not an issue as it was an adult section.
But what got on my nerves was the original series saw spock kirk etc parade about as nazis, the hirogen in voyager portrayed nazis etc, yet I got hassle for daring to create trek stars as nazis, never mind it was done for 2 reasons, one for the artistic reasons of them being vivid, and secondly because it was a reference to the other nazi episodes, but typical wannabe federation type do gooders try to stifle anything that does not conform to their way of viewing trek.
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Gazomg » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:28 pm

take sisko, i like the character, but he is as personally evil as any alien in the entire trek franchise

Remember this is the guy that fabricated reasons to get the romulans in the war and is responsible for the deaths of all them
Was also implicated and accountable for the murders of the guy that made the holo program, plus the romulan senator and his guards.

Also set about to destroy the atmosphere of a planet without any justification in his personal quest to bring in Eddington.

Mention him as evil and people will try to defend his actions,
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:59 pm

Frankly, I don’t have a problem with what Sisko did, he was defending his people and his values. I don’t mind his “I can live with that.” What I can’t stand is that he and his fans don’t accept the same choices and decisions when the aliens make them. There are times when the burden of command takes its toll and there are times when the end justifies the means. Why can’t captains and their fans face it? If the Federation characters give up this aura of sanctimony, they will only become more realistic and interesting. Most fans are not idiots and don’t need someone to preach them, in the case of Sisko his attempts range from doubtful to utterly hilarious. The most bad-assed captain in the history of ST talking about morality.
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:34 am

Shada Dukal wrote:Yes, I am familiar with this book, not one of my favorites, I am afraid. I like the details but still it is inconsistent with the show. In the show, Dukat did not recognize Kira but according to this book, he had been obsessed with Kira since she joined the Resistance.


I liked the details about Ilianas private life and training with Entek. But of course they had to make it look like the terrorist attack on Gul Pirak was cooked up by Entek. This and Dukats secret sex-torture-chamber were simply ridiculous fabrications.
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
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Gazomg
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Gazomg » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:18 pm

Shada Dukal wrote:Frankly, I don’t have a problem with what Sisko did, he was defending his people and his values. I don’t mind his “I can live with that.” What I can’t stand is that he and his fans don’t accept the same choices and decisions when the aliens make them. There are times when the burden of command takes its toll and there are times when the end justifies the means. Why can’t captains and their fans face it? If the Federation characters give up this aura of sanctimony, they will only become more realistic and interesting. Most fans are not idiots and don’t need someone to preach them, in the case of Sisko his attempts range from doubtful to utterly hilarious. The most bad-assed captain in the history of ST talking about morality.



I have no issue with sisko either, it s the hypocrisy on forums that some perpetuate.
On one forum people saying dukat was evil were making allowances for sisko. It could be argued Sisko is more evil as he did what he did for personal reasons while Dukat did it for the empire
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:50 pm

Indeed, the double standards are what infuriates me too, turning a blind eye when the Federation characters do wrong things and crucifying the aliens when they do the same. What is more, the Federation has never been brought to the brink of extinction, the Dominion war was the first instance when their very existence was hanging by a thread. Cardassia has always been poor and fighting for survival. In other words, fans protect over-privileged hawks who are not in a desperate need for resources, they are just sporting their meritorious ego and proton torpedoes. However, when a species that has been struggling with their lot in life for centuries is trying to survive this is evil. Yes, survival is ugly, it means nasty choices, people who don’t live in Paradise do not choose between good and evil, they just choose the lesser of two evils and make the most of it.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison

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Gazomg
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Gazomg » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:00 pm

another example of hypocrisy and double standards is like how starfleet bemoaned the cardassian rule of bajor.
O Brien once said you would never want to live under their control implying cardassian are evil etc.

If the federation then believed this to be true, how come the very same federation gave away maquis planets to the cardassian and therefore forced their own federation citizens living on those colonies to then be under cardassian rule.
That stinks of hypocrisy and double standards to the highest degree
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:02 am

If the Federation wanted to play fairly, they would remove the Maquis from the Cardassian planets. All non-Cardassian settlers had an option to leave but they refused and the Federation supported their decision on purpose, to hamper the Cardassian interests, to make the new planets difficult and dangerous for the Cardassian settlers. The planets belonged to the Cardassians according to a treaty signed between the Federation and Cardassia.

The Maquis did not consider themselves even Federation citizens and planned to declare their separation from Federation.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
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