Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Sit on My Lap and Tell my How Much you Hate Cardassians
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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:04 pm

Do you think this attitude is rather to be found in the US than in Europe?
Maybe the paranoia is a 9/11 or gulf war side effect? It wasn't there in the 90ies.

I just enjoy good stories, that make me think about. I love strong and interesting antagonists with layers.
The writers, the actors, they all put so much heart and work in the developing of an interesting story arc and those imbecile fans ruin that with their strange and irrational behaviour.
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:46 pm

I found an interesting article where the perspectives are completely reversed.
For me it's fun, but for US-Americans this could really hit a nerve.
Deep down they know, that what they hate the most about Cardassia is their own dark side.
And maybe that's the reason why some fans act so extreme.

Article about the similarities between Bajor and Iraq:
http://johnnypez9.blogspot.co.at/2008/0 ... ar-on.html

Psychological projection:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:47 pm

However, we have to brace ourselves for the day when the wave of anti-cardassian madness sweeps over Europe too.
It's time to raise the Galor banner and fight for the Union!
You can count on me!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:08 pm

I am currently reading the story and the articles. As for the motto, I read it on a forum once, and it is believed to be an ancient Romulan curse. But I guess in this particular case the Romulans won’t object if we borrow it and apply it creatively.

Yes, 11/9 changed the mentality of many people in America and made them distrustful and afraid of everything un-American. This insecurity unleashed a real witch-hunt against liberal views so bigotry and hawkish conservatism are on a crusade right now. Fear always prods into action the most stupid and primitive parts of a society that under normal conditions are just jokes and scarecrows but when the critical minds become silent the Daughters of the American Revolution and Sunday School activists from the Bible Belt start forming the public opinion. Queen Amidala from SW said, “This is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause.” The applauses of people ready to trade personal freedom for national security until they run out of both.

We should not let this happen in Europe, we have to preserve our right to be whatever we want. Cardassian fans, unlike the Klingons, have never been a big community but even 10 Cardassians ready to fight and question the status quo can change a lot. The guilt-ridden image of the Cardassians instigated by TPTB and circulated on the forums taught the ST fans to hate Cardassians. Cardassian fans must be proud of what they are, and those who can’t say “I really like Cardassians, and I don’t think that they are Nazis” should think of another favorite species.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison

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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:59 pm

The bad thing is that right now our attack force is not even 10 people strong.
The good thing is that - although few in numbers - strategically we form a perfect axis throughout Europe.
The feared "Axis Of Evil" :twisted: :lol: :twisted:
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:45 pm

Yes, our axis is well situated, so goodies, softies and cuties beware! When we become 10, we might even surround you!

I read the story, I am not surprised, this is how fanfic writers render Cardassians. There are basically two genres – “Cardassian Torture Porn” where vicious Guls rape, beat and torture captured Starfleet personnel and “Introspective Penitent Whimper” where new, democratic Cardassians denounce their past and come to terms with their guilt-ridden conscience. It is a well-written story but it is from a Federation perspective. Finally the Cardassian dies, so that all Cardie-haters can sigh with relief and the hypocritical Starfleet characters keep sniveling over their lost innocence.

Both articles are amazing – the first one is really funny, especially the angry comments, the fans get really jittery when someone changes the perspective. Personally, I have always viewed the Occupation as a colonial endeavor – Cardassians were at least 100 years ahead, they badly needed resources, the Bajorans did nothing, they were too gullible and disunited. The usual asymmetry between a local primitive population and a more advanced conquistador power. What is the whole fuss about? This is the essence of human history, conquering new vistas is what we call civilization and progress but we are outraged when the Cardassians do it. I agree that the Cardassians are a psychological projection and reaction of denial, it makes sense because other combative species do not invoke so much negativism, although they do the same.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison

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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:29 pm

So shall it be! If destiny calls, the 15th Order will be ready to answer! :D

I was thinking a lot about this obsession with Klingons ...
All this tiresome talk about "Honor". Is it really so honorable to fight and die to reach Sto'Vo'Kor? I think it is a rather egotistical reason.

Cardassians fight and die for their people, their families, their homeworld; they sacrifice their lifes to make sure their loved ones can live another day. Can there ever be a reason more honorable than that?

And yet their bravery and integrity stays unappreciated.
This makes me angry. Very angry ... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: grrrrrr
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shada Dukal
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shada Dukal » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:14 pm

“…but I always thought the Cardassians were horrific; I think anyone who doesn't is obviously confused. They did a horrible thing, and I have little sympathy for that." This is an extract from Behr’s famous interview in 2002.

I would like to point out that this is not true, there was something wrong with me long before the Cardassians were invented. I am allergic to stupidity and hypocrisy. However, instigating hate toward a whole race and insinuating unsustainable parallels to Nazism is a dubious PR move at the best. Especially for a show that claims to take humanism to heart. Stigmatizing a race and its representatives as well as suppressing the fan reception does not strike me as a shining example of humanistic creative thought. More of a Frankenstein syndrome, the creator who can’t control his own creation.

I have never read such criticism towards the Klingons, they are Vikings who simply love fighting as part of their noble personality. The Klingon Empire is much bigger than the Cardassian Union so it is obvious that the noble Vikings had a fair share of Occupations, plundering and conquer, the Federation fought the Klingons for decades. Still no one hates the Klingons for being a militaristic and expansionist race of warriors. Because their militaristic nature is viewed as glorious and epic. Being killed by a Bat’leth is a spectacular and honorable experience whereas trying to feed your compatriots, colonizing for resources, fighting the shortages and scarcity, and defending your territory is so banal. Especially for people who don’t have to do it.

It is like the tigers and crocodiles – everyone says what a noble and graceful beast the tiger is whereas the crocodile is just a nasty reptile. In fact, both species are carnivorous and kill in order to survive.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison

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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:08 am

Good comparison! I love crocodiles because they have the most tender mating behavior of the whole animal kingdom :D
Everyone loves elephants. But an elephant bull in heat tends to "rape" the female elephant. And often the female gets hurt during this act and is doomed to die afterwards.
Male crocodiles sing for their chosen female. And she can choose the most attractive singer and mate with him. Their lovemaking takes at least about four hours. The male is very cautious and keeps the head of his female above the water for not drowning her accidentally.
And what do average people see in crocodiles? Coldblooded killing-machines! Ok, crocodiles are very efficient and intelligent hunters and they kill without mercy. But every predator does that. We all love our fluffy little kittens and they are cold blooded killers too :lol:

People tend to apply different measure constantly. Depending on their mood and personal preferences. Imagine Cardassians with fluffy fur and big Kitten-eyes. They could probably eat Bajoran babies for breakfast and would be forgiven. But they are compared to "Nazis". Why? Mainly because of their beautiful armor and militaristic behaviour I think. Not so much for the labor camps - because Rura Penthe 'the alien's graveyard' was worse than Gallitep and no one blames the Klingons for it.

But one serious question: Why do Bajorans get away with terrorism and murder that easily? I really want to know.

Did you read the novel Star Trek – Deep Space Nine: Fearful Symmetry – Book Two?

Excerpt from a letter the Cardassian soldier Ataan wrote home to his beloved Iliana Ghemor:
(Sad to know, that he never returned home, because he was killed in the terrorist attack on Gul Pirak)

------ The *Bajoran* children are inquisitive, and always look forward to the treats my men and I have taken to carrying when our duties take us to the nearby townships. Recently they reciprocated by introducing me to a local confection: jumja. The vendors claim it’s a delicacy they’ve perfected over many generations. I believe them; it actually is quite good. But I’ll tell you honestly, Iliana: it’s utterly revolting to behold. Essentially, it’s a wooden stick with a glob of dense tree sap on one end. A more objectionable–looking thing I cannot imagine. I’ll try to send you some. ------

Really, really, what evil Cardassian soldiers they were .... (*raise the sarcasm shield*)
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shyak
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Re: Help! The Cardassians Are Invading Us!

Postby Shyak » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:45 pm

This is a difficult issue in Austria. We all were raised with a collective bad conscience.
I have to thank you in the name of my grandparents and great-grandparents for your compassionate and understanding speech!
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek


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