A Parody

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Shada Dukal
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A Parody

Postby Shada Dukal » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:25 pm

I have always wondered why TPTB was so determined to finish off Dukat as a character and to diminish his popularity. I have read on a forum that at some point Dukat’s rating was higher than Sisko’s and the producers were really worried about this discrepancy. They were delighted with creating a complex character but when this character jeopardized the protagonist’s standing and became more relatable and fleshed up, they realized that the designated hero was withering overshadowed by an anti-hero with 35 appearances. The only way to counterbalance this reception paradox was to vilify Dukat, to convince the audience that he was a villain and no one should root for him. The problem was that turning Dukat into a designated villain could not make Sisko more convincing and appealing.

Here is a great parody by Oli Johns that mocks exactly this hilarious attempt to guide the reception, the dubious rationale for ruining an interesting character. The author draws parallels between the production perspective and the in-universe developments and they seem to be alarmingly similar. In any case, the designated heroes always win no matter how incredulous or farfetched they may look.

https://psychoholosuite.com/2014/12/14/ ... 9/#more-87
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Gul Khold
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Re: A Parody

Postby Gul Khold » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:45 pm

For a parody, it is pretty accurate. Sisko is forcing all the tropes and clichés of "the good guy" while Dukat is acting like any normal person would. In the end, when you see things in such a perspective, it makes Sisko looks like a blubbering lunatic XD

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Shada Dukal
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Re: A Parody

Postby Shada Dukal » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:56 pm

Sisko’s reasoning has always baffled me. His accusations are based on hearsay, on what the Bajorans claim and since they are revanchist, and build their national mythos on the Occupation, I would not accept their claims that easily. In-universe, Sisko wasn’t on Bajor during the Annexation, in fact no Starfleet personnel was there so how exactly could they take a side and attribute guilt having in mind that they didn’t witness the events, all their info came from mutineers and terrorists whose accounts were neither reliable nor impartial. Besides, Bajor was not under Federation jurisdiction. The show did not present these events either, there were several flashback episodes, but nothing in them amounted to the allegations Sisko made.

The biggest inconsistency is the episode “Life Support” that presents the peace talks between Cardassia and Bajor. Neither the Bajoran representative (Kai Winn) nor Sisko who mediated the talks referred to any civilian losses, questionable administrative procedures or command responsibility. In fact, Dukat was visiting the station and walking round it freely on several occasions. When he was captured as commander-in-chief of the joint Cardassian-Dominion fleet, they suddenly decided to try him for his deeds as Prefect of Bajor. It was much more logical to be interrogated about military campaigns, fleet deployments, vital Dominion facilities and resources, potential weak spots or Jem’Hadar’s and Founders’ vulnerabilities. His tenure as Prefect of Bajor was irrelevant in the middle of the Dominion war. It does not make sense, I think the writers assumed that the audience should adopt Sisko’s position without questioning it.

I love the part about Avery Brooks’ acting – his arrhythmic pauses and throaty agitated rapping are hardly a shining example of stage delivery. I guess this was supposed to convince the audience of Sisko’s emotional involvement but I find it an impotent move. He overacts all the time and that is why Alaimo always looks much more convincing and dominates the scene. Their acting styles are very different and Brooks’ barking declamation does not sound natural at all.
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Gul Khold
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Re: A Parody

Postby Gul Khold » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:53 pm

Exactly. I never understood exactly the whole big deal behind suddenly everyone trashing Dukat for the stuff he did as prefect. Like you said, might be just because they wanted the audience to simply go along with it... And it worked, since the lowest common denominator amongst audiences is, usually, made up by... less intelligent people. Or, at least, people who deslike to use any semblance of logic.

Hahaha, when I see Dukat and Sisko, thanks to both of their actors, it always looks like Sisko is some sort of raving lunatic and Dukat is actually pretty level-headed and patient when dealing with him. Hell, I think Kira would have been a much better protagonist.

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Gazomg
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Re: A Parody

Postby Gazomg » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:05 pm

kira was a bitch, then the bajorans sickended me in every episode they were in.
The were always the card carrying victims.
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Shada Dukal
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Re: A Parody

Postby Shada Dukal » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:18 pm

Touché. I really love your succinctness, Gazomg. Now I am finally aware of what Kira was. Still, the Trill princess with the 9 lives wasn’t better. A sleazy brainy vs. a terrorist bitch? A tough choice. Fortunately, both had nice legs and cute faces.

I have always thought that I am the biggest Bajoran hater roaming and trolling the Trek forums but you have beaten me hollow.
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Re: A Parody

Postby Gazomg » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:37 pm

when I first watch DS9 the bajoran episodes would see me go oh for fucks sake.,

These precious wannabe victims with the backwater hoki pokie religious bullshit.
They are like the scousers or the jews of earth, always the victim,

A bland boring race that made me think it was a pity dukat did not kill all of them.

Did I go too far ? :lol:
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Shada Dukal
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Re: A Parody

Postby Shada Dukal » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:58 pm

No, no, not at all, please, continue.

It is good to see your own thoughts expressed by someone else. I have always despised nations and individuals who base their entire existence on the assumption of past wrongs. Shit happens to everyone but what is done, is done, and focusing on it only cements your victim status. Enduring hardships and developing victim mentality are different things. Besides, I have always considered the “noble savage” trope very unsustainable. Who gives a shit about a bunch of primitives who can’t understand their place in the local interstellar politics?
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison

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Gazomg
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Re: A Parody

Postby Gazomg » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:28 am

Think I alluded to this before but as an Irishman i am all to well aware of how Ireland suffered under the British.

Even today I despise the British establishment.
I do not hate the British people as I can differentiate between them
That said I despise my own government and Irish establishment.

I refuse to be a victim or one of those who acts like one over something that was part of my "history" as an Irish person.

I despise religion as a whole.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to believe, it is their right, but those same people who spew religious freedom tend to be hypocrites when you tell them you do not believe in any god or an invisible man in the sky, they respect for owns own beliefs seems to go out the window then.

You do not see athiests, agnostics and pagans killing in the name of some invisible man, or knocking on your door trying to convert you.
Believe in your God but if your faith is that strong you do not need my approval or backing and let me have my beliefs.

so when I see this bajoran religion crap played out it just reminds me of all those others retarded people who act like they have some divine right.

I dont not train my dogs to hunt, as I wont blood them and wont harm any living creature, I dont believe in the death penalty , I believe life is precious and you treat people like you want them to treat you.
You do not need a religion for that.
Morality, decency compassion, empathy are nothing to do with religious but with being a decent person.

some of the most evil people on earth are actual leaders in religions , be it muslims, catholic, jew or whatever, and if a Hell does exist these are the prime candidates ripe for it.
We live in a world where a so called intelligent species kill one another on the basis that their invisible man is better than someone elses invisible man, how in the blue fuck is that evolved ?

Why is it in the bajoran shit that ever bajoran must hate every cardassian, if they were really religious then should they not be forgiving and understanding.


Look what you started shada :lol:
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Shada Dukal
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Re: A Parody

Postby Shada Dukal » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:44 pm

Oh, I haven’t started anything, just trolling innocently around.

I see your point but as a Bulgarian, I have seen so many big powers come and go that the only thing that I can say is that all asymmetric relations are inherently unfair so it is up to the local structures to negotiate a good treatment for their nations. In this sense, local leaders either manage to keep the balance between a geopolitical necessity and national interests or not. A grudging symbiosis is preferable to a downright occupation.

Judging by this article written from a dispassionate historical perspective, it was inevitable, a big colonial power assimilating its periphery, not much different from our love affair with the Ottoman Empire. One should only bear in mind that we can’t change and judge history because whatever happened was relevant to the people who lived then. We haven’t walked in their shoes, it is just our afterthoughts.

http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/cra ... ed-ireland

Our contemporary politicians comprise only traitors supported by international political lobbies, they work for foreign agendas and facilitate multinational parasitic structures. They did not try to mitigate the conditions or to scrounge any social benefits for my people and that is why they are hated and despised. Some of our previous occupiers had the decency to value us as workers or a sphere of influence and treated us as fairly as the circumstances or the historical period allowed for that. Our current Euro-Atlantic allies and their lapdogs suck in a big way.

I admire Cardassians for having a strong state that takes care of its interests, that is willing to do everything but to provide the population with resources, stability, and security. Dukat treated the Bajorans better than our politicians treat their own population, he fought and negotiated to the last and joined the Dominion out of sheer necessity, simply the Dominion was likely to win. He might have failed but our lousy politicians did not even try.

Religion has never been an issue here, we have some form of Orthodox Christianity but no one is interested, we are down-to-earth people. In fact, I am very happy that we are an atheistic society and we don’t care about any form of organized religion.

Basically, religious people are very traditional and capsulated and resist everything that goes against their beliefs. What is more, they always display this holier-than-thou attitude even if they claim that they are tolerant towards atheists or people from other creeds. The Bajorans believe that faith makes them worthier and more special than other species but in fact, it makes them only more stagnant and stupid.

Hunting, animal rights, gay marriages, feminism and veganism are not my forte. I am a horse-owner and I will do anything for my horse. Every day I deal with a large assortment of grooms, horses, dogs, cats, pigeons and rats. I love them all, especially the rats. Still, I believe people are more important than animals. When all people in my country have access to food, water, electricity, jobs, healthcare and accommodation, I might start crying over stray dogs and underappreciated housewives. I have empathy only for people who have busted their ass to achieve something against the odds, without crying. I can’t stand victims, mollycoddles and bleeding hearts.

Death penalty? The conditions in our prisons make death penalty quite a tolerable option. It is deadly to keep 8 prisoners in cells for 3 where they happily transmit virus pneumonia, tuberculosis, HIV, hepatitis and STDs to each other.

Well, it is not only religion, people kill each other primarily out of economic concerns, religion is only a pretext. It is all about M-class planets, who will dominate them and who gets the resources.

The Bajorans can’t change the perspective, they have spent millennia contemplating their own navel. If they stop hating from victim’s point of view, they have to take responsibility for doing nothing to prevent it. Besides, nowadays victim playing is the in-thing, every idiot who can’t handle their life ascribes it to some social, political, economic, historical, ethnic, gender, or cultural injustice and cries for revenge and retroactive indemnification. Pop culture reflects this trend.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison


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