Here is something to start with:
How far do these ridges go down?
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Shada Dukal
- Sheer Evil
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- Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 9:58 am
How far do these ridges go down?
Where do Cardassians have ridges and are they sensitive or just callused horn? What about the spoon-shaped protrusions on their foreheads and chests, why do they have them, are they just an evolutionary vestige or they serve some purpose? What about their anatomy and physiology? Any suggestions, canon or head-canon?
Here is something to start with:
Here is something to start with:
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
Nice picture ... 
He looks a bit like Glinn Tajor. One of my sons and I were watching the TNG-episode "Chain of Command" and we laughed because Glinn Tajor was too beautiful to be real. In Austria we call such handsome guys "Unterhosenmodell" which roughly translates "male model for panties".
The way he was swaggering through the door was priceless. And the same goes for the way he was bored by the briefing. He almost looked like he would fall asleep. (Who could blame him?) And now he is kneeling in front of my very eyes without underwear? How delightful! Oh, what a lecherous old woman I am ... shame on me! I could be his mother!
But for your questions, I think the ridges are sensitive. Especially the neckridges. We see how Natima Lang reacts when Quark strokes her neckridges. And I had a way to stroke lizards, chameleons and geckos on their bellies to mesmerize them ... this sounds weird, but you should try it, it's intriguing. I had a strange childhood, my father was a scientist, he studied fishes and reptiles so I grew up like this ...
https://plus.google.com/103673901623963 ... 3963070829
I was kind of a "Lizard-Whisperer" ... nowadays there are no lizards around anymore in vienna (damned insecticides)
The spoon-shaped protrusion on their foreheads could be something like our "Pineal Gland".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland
This organ developed from the parietal eye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_eye
.... and this remembers me on the mythological "Third Eye", the seat of the Soul.
(... now I have to throw a coin into the smartass-glass and look out for my fourth beer... see, how talkative I become when drunk - tomorrow I will hide my head in shame)
He looks a bit like Glinn Tajor. One of my sons and I were watching the TNG-episode "Chain of Command" and we laughed because Glinn Tajor was too beautiful to be real. In Austria we call such handsome guys "Unterhosenmodell" which roughly translates "male model for panties".
The way he was swaggering through the door was priceless. And the same goes for the way he was bored by the briefing. He almost looked like he would fall asleep. (Who could blame him?) And now he is kneeling in front of my very eyes without underwear? How delightful! Oh, what a lecherous old woman I am ... shame on me! I could be his mother!
But for your questions, I think the ridges are sensitive. Especially the neckridges. We see how Natima Lang reacts when Quark strokes her neckridges. And I had a way to stroke lizards, chameleons and geckos on their bellies to mesmerize them ... this sounds weird, but you should try it, it's intriguing. I had a strange childhood, my father was a scientist, he studied fishes and reptiles so I grew up like this ...
https://plus.google.com/103673901623963 ... 3963070829
I was kind of a "Lizard-Whisperer" ... nowadays there are no lizards around anymore in vienna (damned insecticides)
The spoon-shaped protrusion on their foreheads could be something like our "Pineal Gland".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland
This organ developed from the parietal eye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_eye
.... and this remembers me on the mythological "Third Eye", the seat of the Soul.
(... now I have to throw a coin into the smartass-glass and look out for my fourth beer... see, how talkative I become when drunk - tomorrow I will hide my head in shame)
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek
Aman Evek
-
Shada Dukal
- Sheer Evil
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 9:58 am
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
I adore your explanations, boldly open the forth beer and go where no one has gone before. I really like the picture where you are whispering to the lizard on your arm. It looks really attentive. Relax, there is nothing wrong with you, I am very shameless and licentious myself. What about this?
Yes, I have always suspected that this forehead protrusion is somehow related to Cardassian psyche and brain activity. It was probably better developed in their primordial ancestors and it gradually become more rudimentary in the course of evolution and development of other senses such as better eyesight, hearing and a neurological system but still their moods and psychological well-being might be affected by changes in the light and temperature. Garak was quite unhappy with the light and temperature on DS9 and this caused him a profound sense of discomfort that could not be compensated by wearing warmer clothing or avoidance of lit-up places.
Yes, Glinn Tajor has a captivating presence, machismo and confidence, personally I like Gul Lemec very much too. The guy in the picture though cute is not anatomically correct. I guess these ridges should go laterally downwards the tights and shins not medially. If the neck ridges gradually continue downwards, they must run down the central part of the brachia not the dorsal part. I expect the joints to be relatively free of ridges because the constant movement has gradually caused them to diminish and become sparser, more of uneven scales than real ridges. In reptiles, the ventral scales are less protruding and more elongated than the dorsal because the animal rubs and scrapes them while moving. What is more, if the shoulders, the knees and the elbows are that loaded with ridges this would restrict their movements. However, I like the way the chest and abdomen are presented, it makes sense. I expect Cardassians to have ridges around their iliac crest sloping down the crotch.
Yes, I have always suspected that this forehead protrusion is somehow related to Cardassian psyche and brain activity. It was probably better developed in their primordial ancestors and it gradually become more rudimentary in the course of evolution and development of other senses such as better eyesight, hearing and a neurological system but still their moods and psychological well-being might be affected by changes in the light and temperature. Garak was quite unhappy with the light and temperature on DS9 and this caused him a profound sense of discomfort that could not be compensated by wearing warmer clothing or avoidance of lit-up places.
Yes, Glinn Tajor has a captivating presence, machismo and confidence, personally I like Gul Lemec very much too. The guy in the picture though cute is not anatomically correct. I guess these ridges should go laterally downwards the tights and shins not medially. If the neck ridges gradually continue downwards, they must run down the central part of the brachia not the dorsal part. I expect the joints to be relatively free of ridges because the constant movement has gradually caused them to diminish and become sparser, more of uneven scales than real ridges. In reptiles, the ventral scales are less protruding and more elongated than the dorsal because the animal rubs and scrapes them while moving. What is more, if the shoulders, the knees and the elbows are that loaded with ridges this would restrict their movements. However, I like the way the chest and abdomen are presented, it makes sense. I expect Cardassians to have ridges around their iliac crest sloping down the crotch.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
Yes, Gul Lemec was fantastic. I especially loved his smile, a mixture of Baba Jaga and a shark.
The ridges don't look very hard to me. More cartilaginous or so. I think you can pinch them there
and it will hurt a lot.
However the bigger scales alongside the neck look very hard and protective. In my imagination the harden more and more with age. Maybe they need some special care, like oil or scale-lotion or they will dry out and become cracked and brittle with time. Newborn babies could have very soft and weak scales and their ridges would not be very protruding.
What do you think about the toe-nails? There are some fanfics out there, where the toe-nails were described as black and sharp claws. But personally I don't think they would look much different from the fingernails.
In this picture you can see the black toe-nails ... but be warned it might be a little disturbing (however quite nice for blackmailing purposes )
http://dictionarywrites.tumblr.com/post ... d-with-the
The ridges don't look very hard to me. More cartilaginous or so. I think you can pinch them there
and it will hurt a lot.However the bigger scales alongside the neck look very hard and protective. In my imagination the harden more and more with age. Maybe they need some special care, like oil or scale-lotion or they will dry out and become cracked and brittle with time. Newborn babies could have very soft and weak scales and their ridges would not be very protruding.
What do you think about the toe-nails? There are some fanfics out there, where the toe-nails were described as black and sharp claws. But personally I don't think they would look much different from the fingernails.
In this picture you can see the black toe-nails ... but be warned it might be a little disturbing (however quite nice for blackmailing purposes
)http://dictionarywrites.tumblr.com/post ... d-with-the
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek
Aman Evek
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
So this picture will be stored in the "Blackmail & Intrigue" labelled drawer ....
You never know when it comes handy
You never know when it comes handy
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek
Aman Evek
-
Shada Dukal
- Sheer Evil
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 9:58 am
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
Yes, Gul Lemec has a great smile. Whenever he smiles, I am sure that somewhere in the Universe, a supernova engulfs a galaxy or two or a ship loses its structural integrity and blows out at high warp.
Baba Jaga is a just a good-natured old witch who was vilified beyond recognition by generations of parents who were in the habit of scaring the shit out of their naughty offspring by saying, “By quiet or I will call Baba Jaga and give you to her.”
According to Rammstein:
“Und der Haifisch der hat Tränen
Und die laufen vom Gesicht
Doch der Haifisch lebt im Wasser
So die Tränen sieht man nicht”.
(The shark has tears and they roll over its face but since it lives in water no one sees them.) Sorry for the clumsy English translation.
There is no evidence that Gul Lemec has ever shed tears.
In terms of neck structure, it was shown in the show that the Klingons were collecting neck bones so I guess the ridges were only external and the outside slope of the neck was supported by additional rows of vertebra loosely connected to the central vertebral column. Michael Westmore theorized in 2005 that they probably shed and re-grew their scales, which makes sense because we re-grow our nails and hair. Certain reptilian species also shed their skin. But still I expect them to apply some cosmetics on their scales having in mind that they are part of their body and the neck ridges play an important part in their sexual behavior.
I really like the picture and having in mind their finger nails that we saw in the show I guess their toe nails should not be that different. Still, the fanfic story raises another issue that most ST fans scrupulously evade. What do Cardassians have between their legs? Having in mind that they were capable of producing offspring with Bajorans and Kazon who were true mammals, I don’t think that they have a reptilian reproductive system. I expect them to have a mammalian reproductive system but to have scales on or around the external genital organs.
Yes, store that picture, I have something similar posted in the “Star Trek Art Fun and Rumors,” the thread is ”Cardassian Artwork Found on the Net.” Page 3. It is good to have leverage these days, one never knows.
Baba Jaga is a just a good-natured old witch who was vilified beyond recognition by generations of parents who were in the habit of scaring the shit out of their naughty offspring by saying, “By quiet or I will call Baba Jaga and give you to her.”
According to Rammstein:
“Und der Haifisch der hat Tränen
Und die laufen vom Gesicht
Doch der Haifisch lebt im Wasser
So die Tränen sieht man nicht”.
(The shark has tears and they roll over its face but since it lives in water no one sees them.) Sorry for the clumsy English translation.
There is no evidence that Gul Lemec has ever shed tears.
In terms of neck structure, it was shown in the show that the Klingons were collecting neck bones so I guess the ridges were only external and the outside slope of the neck was supported by additional rows of vertebra loosely connected to the central vertebral column. Michael Westmore theorized in 2005 that they probably shed and re-grew their scales, which makes sense because we re-grow our nails and hair. Certain reptilian species also shed their skin. But still I expect them to apply some cosmetics on their scales having in mind that they are part of their body and the neck ridges play an important part in their sexual behavior.
I really like the picture and having in mind their finger nails that we saw in the show I guess their toe nails should not be that different. Still, the fanfic story raises another issue that most ST fans scrupulously evade. What do Cardassians have between their legs? Having in mind that they were capable of producing offspring with Bajorans and Kazon who were true mammals, I don’t think that they have a reptilian reproductive system. I expect them to have a mammalian reproductive system but to have scales on or around the external genital organs.
Yes, store that picture, I have something similar posted in the “Star Trek Art Fun and Rumors,” the thread is ”Cardassian Artwork Found on the Net.” Page 3. It is good to have leverage these days, one never knows.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
A very expressive song of Rammstein. And a sad one too, because when I heard it first I thought it was about the extinction of sharks.
This beautiful and graceful animal is older than the dinosaurs and perfectly adapted to its natural environment. But they are slaughtered for their fins or just for fun. Everybody fights for the rights of the "sweet dolphins" but not many shed a tear for the sharks. Again this is a typical example of human hypocrisy.
Let's move to a more pleasant topic. Cardassian reproduction.
There are so many opinions to this issue. Some say they are true reptiles and hatch from eggs.
I think they are mammals. Reptiloid mammals. Or mammal-like reptiles maybe. In a dry and hot environment it makes sense to keep some reptiloid features. Cardassian women have breasts. Breasts are for breastfeeding in the first place. Breastfeeding is typical for mammals. So they must be mammals. (This simple logic is quite irresistible, isn't it?) And that is the reason why they can procreate with Bajorans for example. I've heard somewhere that there is a kind of classification who can breed with whom how easily.
To have both reproductive systems would be very practically.
What really confuses me are the different descriptions of the male genitals. There are those beautiful and romantic fanfics Victoria Meredith wrote about Damar and Kira mainly. And there are some very explicit descriptions of a "pod" where everything is neatly tucked away when not in use. When aroused the pod opens, the penis emerges and cannot be tucked away until the urge is satisfied. So what happens if Damar (for example) needs to go to the waste extraction to urinate? (And in her fanfiction "An Honorable Contest" he went there together with Worf ... when I remember it correctly) The urge to urinate opens the pod too? .... oh, this topic is a little bit too private but I am just curious
This "pod" seems to be a good idea to protect the private parts in combat for example but not very practicable in everyday use.
This beautiful and graceful animal is older than the dinosaurs and perfectly adapted to its natural environment. But they are slaughtered for their fins or just for fun. Everybody fights for the rights of the "sweet dolphins" but not many shed a tear for the sharks. Again this is a typical example of human hypocrisy.
Let's move to a more pleasant topic. Cardassian reproduction.
There are so many opinions to this issue. Some say they are true reptiles and hatch from eggs.
I think they are mammals. Reptiloid mammals. Or mammal-like reptiles maybe. In a dry and hot environment it makes sense to keep some reptiloid features. Cardassian women have breasts. Breasts are for breastfeeding in the first place. Breastfeeding is typical for mammals. So they must be mammals. (This simple logic is quite irresistible, isn't it?) And that is the reason why they can procreate with Bajorans for example. I've heard somewhere that there is a kind of classification who can breed with whom how easily.
To have both reproductive systems would be very practically.
What really confuses me are the different descriptions of the male genitals. There are those beautiful and romantic fanfics Victoria Meredith wrote about Damar and Kira mainly. And there are some very explicit descriptions of a "pod" where everything is neatly tucked away when not in use. When aroused the pod opens, the penis emerges and cannot be tucked away until the urge is satisfied. So what happens if Damar (for example) needs to go to the waste extraction to urinate? (And in her fanfiction "An Honorable Contest" he went there together with Worf ... when I remember it correctly) The urge to urinate opens the pod too? .... oh, this topic is a little bit too private but I am just curious
This "pod" seems to be a good idea to protect the private parts in combat for example but not very practicable in everyday use.
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek
Aman Evek
-
Shada Dukal
- Sheer Evil
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 9:58 am
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
I have never seen any proof that the Cardassians evolved from pure reptilian stock. It was a mammal that retained some outer reptilian features such as scales, less fur, sturdiness and great endurance. If they were truly reptilian, they would be able to reproduce with only reptilian species. In terms of evolutionary biology, two species have to be of the same class and share a very close number of chromosomes in order to reproduce. In this sense, I have always viewed Cardassians as just another race that developed from the ancient humanoid, only the direct ancestor happened to have some reptilian vestigial features.
Having two types of reproductive system does not seem very plausible. Have you ever heard of that in any RL species, nature does not tolerate redundancy. Contemporary egg-laying mammals like the platypus are not compatible with true mammals. Marsupials such as the kangaroo can’t create offspring with anything outside their class either. So the Cardassians must be mammals in terms of physiology whereas the remnants of their reptilian ancestry are only anatomical and rudimentary. Such a rudimentary aspect is their inability to tolerate cold for example. Still, they handle it much better than a real reptilian would.
The concept that the male Cardassians have a pod or pouch containing the penis and internal testicles and the females have a cloaca that serves both reproduction and extraction was introduced by the Cardassian Orientation College. Some people have cut biology classes and have no notion of species taxonomy and chromosomes, I guess. Then the early fanfic writers adopted the concept and popularized it. As far as fanfic extrapolations on Cardassian anatomy are concerned, I think Eva A. Enblom in “Cardassian Heat” has done a great job in doing away with all these preconceptions that have no scientific argumentation.
Having two types of reproductive system does not seem very plausible. Have you ever heard of that in any RL species, nature does not tolerate redundancy. Contemporary egg-laying mammals like the platypus are not compatible with true mammals. Marsupials such as the kangaroo can’t create offspring with anything outside their class either. So the Cardassians must be mammals in terms of physiology whereas the remnants of their reptilian ancestry are only anatomical and rudimentary. Such a rudimentary aspect is their inability to tolerate cold for example. Still, they handle it much better than a real reptilian would.
The concept that the male Cardassians have a pod or pouch containing the penis and internal testicles and the females have a cloaca that serves both reproduction and extraction was introduced by the Cardassian Orientation College. Some people have cut biology classes and have no notion of species taxonomy and chromosomes, I guess. Then the early fanfic writers adopted the concept and popularized it. As far as fanfic extrapolations on Cardassian anatomy are concerned, I think Eva A. Enblom in “Cardassian Heat” has done a great job in doing away with all these preconceptions that have no scientific argumentation.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
I agree with you that Cardassians probably developed from ancient humanoids. Possibly those who spread their genetic material on different worlds. (TNG "The Chase") This "material" could further be formed by the respective conditions of the various planets. Abhorring the cold is no proof for being a cold-blooded reptile ... and Dukat wearing far too tight trousers (Indiscretion) might be a proof for the "non-existence" of a pod. 
If I remember "Cardassian Heat" correctly there was a comparision with a "Cobra". I should re read it.
If I remember "Cardassian Heat" correctly there was a comparision with a "Cobra". I should re read it.
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek
Aman Evek
Re: How far do these ridges go down?
In the broadest sense humans did evolve from reptiles. Our brain-stem is almost the same. Some mammals like hedgehog, shrew and bat still share a lot of features with them. Like conical teeth for example. (By the way: Cardassians don't have conical teeth)
Embryos of amphibians, reptiles, birds, mammals and humans are almost indistinguishable in the early stages of their development. The developing of a human fetus represents a fast run of evolution. Humans share 50% of DNA with bananas, 75% with roundworms, 98,5% with chimpanzees and 99% with other humans. ... all percentages without guarantee ( I simply love throwing around percentages without proof)
Embryos of amphibians, reptiles, birds, mammals and humans are almost indistinguishable in the early stages of their development. The developing of a human fetus represents a fast run of evolution. Humans share 50% of DNA with bananas, 75% with roundworms, 98,5% with chimpanzees and 99% with other humans. ... all percentages without guarantee ( I simply love throwing around percentages without proof)
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek
Aman Evek
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