Punishments

Confession is Good for the Soul
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shada Dukal » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:20 pm

I guess when the writers tailored the Cardassian juridical system they opted for the Orwellian cliché and did not tried to make it more plausible and fleshed-up, not enough screen time. It is a metaphor, a dystopia, it can’t be fully achieved and implemented because it would require a repressive state apparatus that would be unrealistically big compared to the size of the population. In reality, no totalitarian state can have as many agents, operatives or policemen as to control each aspect of their citizens’ lives nor can it develop surveillance network that encompasses all spheres of life. This is economically and practically unsustainable.

I suppose they have a system of penitentiary facilities just as all advanced societies have them. Their litigation has a good investigating component which speeds up the administrative procedure. They also have no appellation procedure according to the “Tribunal” episode. Making a mistake is not an option so the investigators must really do their job and be precise. Since they have a civil law jurisdiction, they must have a criminal or a penal code that is a set of prescribed principles to be applied on a case-by-case basis. They enjoy enigma novels and try to establish who is guilty of what and this suggests a well-developed distinction of various offences.

Having in mind their respect for details and meticulous nature, they must make a difference between infractions, misdemeanors and felonies. So felonies with great social and political impact are likely to be punished severely, the trials publicly displayed and the culprits are probably executed or sent to a harsh labor camp. On the other hand, petty infractions might be punished by fines and periods of community service as menial workers in the industry, mining, waste-disposal, or agriculture. The level of Cardassian social development and sophistication precludes careless and oversimplified approach to the different types of crimes.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shada Dukal » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:04 pm

Well, no security service can install bugs into everyone’s home. One should be truly something to deserve such a distinction. What is more, the people who really have something to hide are also experts at debugging. Surveillance is a matter of technology and there is a counter-technology. Even if people don’t have anti-eavesdropping devices at hand, they can always use euphemisms and double-speak in order to imply what they really mean, if they want to discuss something important they can do it in a park or a market place where bugs can’t be placed. Places outside the big residential areas are also very convenient. Agents are not idiots, they have priorities, the average disgruntled citizen or wayward intellectual are hardly a threat but a barometer.

In fact, Cardassians value order and when they see criminal behavior punished they are happy and this reinforces their trust in the state. In all societies, criminal offences are always more numerous than the political ones so assuming that all cases involve dissidents or dissenters is wrong. What I like about the Cardassian juridical system is that it forces the citizens to be good and decent and gives them a sense of real justice here and now. It also encourages them to view themselves as part of something bigger rather than individuals engulfed in their own problems.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
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Shyak
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shyak » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:33 pm

Perhaps eavesdropping bugs are factory-installed in everyday objects, such as television sets. While you watch the news, you're observed by the Obsidian Order. Very convenient. (The poor agents working in surveillance - this must be very boring)

The bad thing about being caught while doing an “asocial deed” like fare dodging on public transport for example, is not the punishment per se but the shame. That's why I think that exhibition in public is such an essential part of Cardassian punishment. Cardassians are proud people.
One half of the sentenced are ashamed for doing wrong in the first place - the other half for being caught :lol:
Either way being exposed is definitely a lesson they will not forget.
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
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Shyak
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shyak » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:02 pm

These are state-run factories .
I bet, the Obsidians have already undermined the production of every type of broadcasting-items for decades.
Perhaps the same is true for plumbers, electricians, bricklayers - they are wiring your home during renovations - their surveillance is simply everywhere. Nothing is impossible for the Order :D
And that's the reason why we all can sleep peacefully, because we know that someone is watching over us all the time :P
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shada Dukal
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shada Dukal » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:00 pm

Don’t underestimate the power of urban legends and social mimicry. People soon learn how to find these bugs and what can be said and what not. What is more, all these plumbers, bricklayers and electricians have friends and families too, the information on where and how the devices are planted will leak and people will know how to render them ineffective without even touching them. Each electronic device is vulnerable to magnetic fields for example. Poor agents, the static noise effect that a disabled bug transmits must be truly irritating. Some secrets are not worth the effort – if they are not a threat to the national security, it is a real waste of agents to make them listen to adulteries, generation gap quarrels and the war at home.

Obsidians are a must, no society can function without such structures. And Cardassians are clever enough to make the difference between personal matters and a public face. As long as their public face is immaculate, they can indulge in what they want as long as they don’t do it flagrantly and provocatively and don’t challenge the public priorities. It is a matter of communicative sophistication and adaptability to walk the line between a public and private self. The agents are there to remind people that the balance between the individual interests and the social priorities must be observed.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
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Shada Dukal
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shada Dukal » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:15 pm

No secret remains a secret forever, workers would notice that some details were different and the batches came from different places. What is more, people who are aware of the fact that such devices exist will triple-check everything until they find out which the tampered batches are. This is the beauty of the public secrets.
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Shyak
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shyak » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:28 pm

Shada Dukal wrote: ... it is a real waste of agents to make them listen to adulteries, generation gap quarrels and the war at home.


True, but you never know when to pick up something relevant.
I guess a bunch of slightly perverted (voyeuristic) agents volunteered for the task. :D

There was this spot of an austrian furniture store (the second one) - it made me laugh a little
http://derstandard.at/1397301982852/Moe ... -hoert-mit
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shada Dukal
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shada Dukal » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:52 pm

The agent in the second commercial was so helpful, he even told the lady the name of the one-night stand she was talking about. She was so rude!

I guess agents have to be voyeuristic, this is part of the job description, job satisfaction boosts the performance. Still having an agent attached to listen to your conversation is a privilege not a right. No one can sift through so much info or maintain 24/7 surveillance on everyone, there are hardly enough agents for that.
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!
Jim Morrison

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Shyak
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shyak » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:33 pm

Probably the monitoring is automated for the most part with a special software that responds to keywords ...
But I think it is certainly not too difficult to outsmart this software.
It's just like you said, there are hardly enough agents ...
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek

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Shyak
Entering the Evil Zone
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Re: Punishments

Postby Shyak » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:26 pm

Under martial law treason, high treason, cowardice before the enemy and undermining of fighting spirit could be punished with shooting on the spot or a show trial as deterring example followed by the inevitable execution.

Under civil law probably murder in general or particularly severe murder in the family (patricide, matricide, infanticide),
sabotage of public property, arson, defamation of official dignitaries and again all kind of treason will be punished with death.
I think the penalty will be executed shortly after the customary show trial. No need to feed the criminals longer than necessary.

I cannot imagine that there would be any possibility for appealing against a precipitated judgment.
The verdict is set in stone because neither Cardassian criminal investigators nor Cardassian courts make mistakes. :D

And should (against all odds) an error occur then the innocent "delinquent" has the extraordinary luck to be the exception of the rule and would still be executed. A noble sacrifice for the credibility of the court!
There never was a war that was not inward, never a heart conquered from without. What is our innocence, where is our guilt? Where is the courage for the unanswered question that in misfortune, even in death, can defeat our mortality?
Aman Evek


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